Part 1 - Folk

[Lee Cagle]

Another question, prompted by some of the postings: does folk music - if "topical is one of its characteristics- always (or almost always) have words? That is, does it always at least originate as music to be sung? If so, then is that true for fiddle tunes? (I'm thinking of those with titles like "Spider bit the baby" and "nail that catfish to the tree").

Again- just questions, and showing my ignorance.

Nina

Folk music consists of tunes and songs...songs having words, of course. Just from what I hear, they always seem to tell a story, Jean Ritchie sings folk music, Woody Guthrie and more recently Bob Dylan are also great examples...storytellers. I even consider Johnny Cash, to a degree, a folk singer. Just my humble opinion.

So David, folk music does not apply to only songs written say before 1940 but to any song that is telling a story?

I would respectfully disagree to limiting folk songs to story songs. Some of my favorites are actually silly nonsense songs.

[Jonathan Dowell]

Is there a set date that a song was written that makes it "traditional" vs. "contemporary"?

There is a legal date that separates "public domain" music from copyright-able modern music. But that may be different from traditional vs. contemporary.

[Penny]

Where does the definition fall between "country music" and " folk Music" ?

[David Ellison]

So David, folk music does not apply to only songs written say before 1940 but to any song that is telling a story?

I would agree that restricting folk music to a particular time period is artificial. Telling a story is a basic characteristic of folk music. if the story translates well to other time periods then so much the better.[/quote]


Well said Jim...my thoughts exactly

[Jim Woods]

Another big challenge for dulcimers are those tunes (particularly jazz) with a "flatted fifth" interval. There are more of those examples in contemporary music, but a handful in older "folk" tunes.[/quote]

There's lots of wonderful music that won't fit the diatonic dulcimer. As much as I like it, I have already added the 1 1/2 and am toying with some more. The flatted 5th is a good one but you can cover that in DAD on the middle string. What I miss more is the sharp 5th (augmented chords and the 4 minor). The devil made me do it.

[MS Folk Music Society]

Is there a set date that a song was written that makes it "traditional" vs. "contemporary"?

There is a legal date that separates "public domain" music from copyright-able modern music. But that may be different from traditional vs. contemporary.

Jonathan, what is the date the separates "public domain" vs. copyright-able modern music? Does this date change?

[Jeff Hames]

well everyone it's nine o'clock again and it has been another GREAT forum! thank you all for coming tonight and taking a break from your taxes for an hour haha.


See you next month!!!!

[Jim Woods]

I would respectfully disagree to limiting folk songs to story songs. Some of my favorites are actually silly nonsense songs.[/quote]

Silly nonsense songs can still be story songs. If they are gibberish that might stretch things a bit but it they tell a recognizable story then why woudn't that fit the descriptions we have been discussing? I don't think there is a disagreement here.

[ninazanetti]

A note that I often wish for on the dulcimer is the sharped 7th step (leading tone) of the minor scale. So, for example, I can play easily in e minor out of DAD tuning, but only the "natural" minor, with a low 7th step ((d natural); some tunes, even some folk tunes, like the Welsh "David of the White Rock" call for the harmonic minor, which has the sharped 7th step (in e minor that woudl be a D#). Sometimes it's possible to get this note (on one string) for a d minor scale, in DAC tuning. Otherwise, Rob Brereton told me that to get this note (and therefore the harmonic minor scale), I'd have to use some kind of chromatic tuning, like D F+ A or DA+AD.

[Jonathan Dowell]

Is there a set date that a song was written that makes it "traditional" vs. "contemporary"?

There is a legal date that separates "public domain" music from copyright-able modern music. But that may be different from traditional vs. contemporary.

Jonathan, what is the date the separates "public domain" vs. copyright-able modern music? Does this date change?

I'm not a legal expert, but a lot is defined by the "Sonny Bono" law (the Federal law championed by Mr. Bono while he was Congressman from California). A quick search on Google will lead you to these details... Give me a little time and I could dig it up, but I'd use Google to do it...

[Jonathan Dowell]

Is there a set date that a song was written that makes it "traditional" vs. "contemporary"?

There is a legal date that separates "public domain" music from copyright-able modern music. But that may be different from traditional vs. contemporary.

Jonathan, what is the date the separates "public domain" vs. copyright-able modern music? Does this date change?

I'm not a legal expert, but a lot is defined by the "Sonny Bono" law (the Federal law championed by Mr. Bono while he was Congressman from California). A quick search on Google will lead you to these details... Give me a little time and I could dig it up, but I'd use Google to do it...

Here is a good reference, from Wikipedia...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_Term_Extension_Act
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_ ... ension_Act
Jonathan

[David Ellison]

I like the silly songs too, but they do tell some sort of story, at least all I have ever heard toThank you Nina! I love those songs...another type are play party songs, and adapt well to the dulcimer. Gotta head out, Thanks Jeff. Great to see everyone!

[Joe Collins]

I'm just now getting to the computer. It seems that nailing down a definition of "folk music" is a relatively difficult thing to do. A classical definition might be "music that is created and passed around or down through generations by common folk." However, when we consider the modern folk movement (whatever that is), a new dimension was added to that definition. The movement started out with professional musicians (not necessarily common folk) capitalizing on a stock of older folk songs. But the movement evolved into musicians creating and recording music that sounded like some of those songs. Thus "folk music" now includes commercial entertainment enterprises that find their inspiration from folk music in the classical sense. I think that is why it is hard to define it accurately.